tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825814.post115235416429931258..comments2023-09-30T04:12:28.281-07:00Comments on Finding Fair Hope: Seeking IronyMary Loishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01515655542270431289noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825814.post-1152490201197364332006-07-09T17:10:00.000-07:002006-07-09T17:10:00.000-07:00OK. As for forgiveness, I did not want you to thi...OK. As for forgiveness, I did not want you to think I was being a smartass. As it turns out, you may be right about the Fratellinis, so -- assuming you are right -- please forgive me for making a "fratellini" of myself.Benedict S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18319073770437347659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825814.post-1152489083941633982006-07-09T16:51:00.000-07:002006-07-09T16:51:00.000-07:00"Forgive me if this sounds the way I would think i..."Forgive me if this sounds the way I would think it sounds if someone wrote it to me." You need forgiveness for what, exactly? <BR/><BR/>And in the novel, Bill Gorton is the ultimate provincial New Yorker. He can't believe anybody would not want to do and know all the things those in the know in New York do and know. What he says about the Fratellinis is, "They're mad about it in New York. It's just like the Fratellinis used to be." Why this would refer to some clown act in Europe is beyond me. I choose to interpret this anecdote as meaning that the Fratellinis had been a hit in New York in the recent past.Mary Loishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01515655542270431289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825814.post-1152484612131785722006-07-09T15:36:00.000-07:002006-07-09T15:36:00.000-07:00Forgive me if this sounds the way I would think it...Forgive me if this sounds the way I would think it sounds if someone wrote it to me, but Hemingway wrote <I>The Sun Also Rises</I> while living in Paris. Perhaps Hemingway caught the Fratellinis' act there or elsewhere abroad. He and his first wife had lived in Paris for several years before he wrote the book in question. He apparently based many of the incidents in the book on things that happened during a trip they took to Spain with some of their literary friends. <BR/><BR/>I don't know what possessed me last year to read a biography of Mr. Hemingway, but I'm sure there was a reason. The title was <I>Hemingway: A Life Without Consequences</I>, by James R. Mellow. Good stuff on the man and a truly humorous tale of a trip H. and Scott Fitzgerald took, supposedly to pick up Fitzgerald's new car. That tale alone is worth the price of the book.Benedict S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18319073770437347659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825814.post-1152460033089654762006-07-09T08:47:00.000-07:002006-07-09T08:47:00.000-07:00Mystery solved via the Internet! Great work. Now w...Mystery solved via the Internet! Great work. Now we can assume that the Frantellinis had taken New York by storm a year or so before Hemingway published this. Wish I'd been there -- and I'm not being ironical. Hope I'm not being pitiful either.Mary Loishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01515655542270431289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825814.post-1152458100917365702006-07-09T08:15:00.000-07:002006-07-09T08:15:00.000-07:00After writing the comment, I googled "Fratellinis"...After writing the comment, I googled "Fratellinis" and learned, (1) there's a street in Florence by that name, and (2) that the Fratellinis were a famous family of clowns.Benedict S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18319073770437347659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825814.post-1152452563706043322006-07-09T06:42:00.000-07:002006-07-09T06:42:00.000-07:00The line about the Fratellinis went past me too. I...The line about the Fratellinis went past me too. I think it's a 1920's reference of some ephemeral incident or celebrity family -- the Flying Frantellinis perhaps -- that is long lost to us. But I didn't feel right about editing it out, what the hell, it's Hemingway. I thought it marred the quote a bit, but it was there so I left it. <BR/><BR/>As for irony, I think "Mendacious Mouse" as a blog title is a pretty good example.Mary Loishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01515655542270431289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21825814.post-1152451616623152872006-07-09T06:26:00.000-07:002006-07-09T06:26:00.000-07:00Well, not half so boring as I thought it would be....Well, not half so boring as I thought it would be. What is "Fratellinis"? It's not in my word book. Ah, maybe it's a family name, Italian, Fratellini. But I still don't understand it. I suppose one must have been a Brit to see the irony in it all, like when you're told that you're "bugger all," it means you're screwed but unless you're British you may still be a virgin, at least in your left ear. Is irony something like humor? Without the pratfalls and cream pies?<BR/><BR/>Your point is well made. Real American irony is a bit more visceral than the ex-pat brand peddled by Hemingway. We truly meant to destroy the village, but only after the smoke had cleared did we realize we had saved it from a fate worse than death. It's the unintended magic of the thing that gives it its ironic power. <BR/><BR/>Played on the stages of the continent, where the scent of cordite lingers, the American version of practical jokes of that sort comes across as a trifle too sardonic. The Old World has lost -- if it ever had it -- the love of all things necrophilic so necessary to the appreciation of death and destruction as an art form. "God, but I love the smell of napalm in the morning," perhaps the most characteristic example of American irony ever uttered.<BR/><BR/>[Ah, what? You say the line was written by an ex-pat Scotsman? How deceitful.]Benedict S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18319073770437347659noreply@blogger.com